You are nearly certain (although it has been so long that sometimes you wonder if you imagined it) that you started your journey on a boat of some sort: maybe a large, fancy boat, maybe a small, simple boat. Either way, the boat allowed you to navigate the ocean safely and relatively easily, even when you encountered rough seas or large waves. Although there was work involved in keeping the boat functioning well, you were able to keep on top of the work without too much trouble, notice the beauty and wonders of the voyage, learn some interesting things along the way, and even take up some hobbies that bring you joy.
But, somehow, you ended up out of your boat. Perhaps a strong wave of adolescent hormones, or a traumatic event, or pregnancy or post-partum hormones, or the long-term cruelty of others knocked you out of your boat. Perhaps you just woke up one day and realized you were not in your boat anymore, and you were not quite certain how you had gone overboard or where your boat was now.
It is possible to survive in the ocean without your boat, but it is considerably harder. Now you are already busy treading water and trying to avoid sharks, which were not much of a concern when you were in your boat but are QUITE CONCERNING now, when the larger waves crash over you:
a serious illness *CRASH*,
a change in employment *CRASH*,
a cross-country move *CRASH*,
a baby who never sleeps and cries most of the time *CRASH*,
a child with behavior or medical problems *CRASH*,
seeking treatment for that child *CRASH*,
needing to convince the medical professionals that your child needs help when they don't see a problem *CRASH*,
moving AGAIN *CRASH*,
the death of a loved one *CRASH*.
All of this leaves you with very little time or energy to work on finding your boat, but you do what you can.
You managed to hold on to your hobbies when you went overboard, but you notice that even those, which used to bring you so much joy, are making it harder to stay afloat, so you let them go.
Occasionally, you will see people passing by in their boats. You are weary from your battle to stay afloat, but you muster your strength to call for help. You know that nobody can give you their own boat, but maybe they will have a suggestion that will help you find your boat again.
Some people will point out that your ocean journey would be much easier if you were in your boat; why they do this is a mystery: Do they think you enjoy treading water? Do they think you have not noticed the loss of your boat and the resulting difficulties? Do they think you have not done everything in your power to find it? When you ask for advice on finding it, they will reply, "Well, if you just have a more positive attitude/take these supplements/get enough sleep and exercise/pray harder/meditate/use these oils, etc, your boat will come back to you!" You try each of these things at some point, but your boat does not return.
Some people will insist that you ARE actually IN YOUR BOAT, which, they are CERTAIN, is MUCH nicer than their boats, and why are you making such a fuss about taking your journey in such a nice boat anyway?
Some people will toss at you the web address to access the list of the many, many approved boat-finders in your area, which, by the way, requires you to make a password 9-20 characters
long, including at least one number, capital and lower case letter, one
of 5 specific symbols, and CANNOT include any segments of your name,
address, phone number, ID number, or any words 3 letters or longer that
are found in the dictionary. (Oh, and you'll need to change your password every 180 days.) Although you mention that you have spent significant time with more than one boat-finder in the past with little or no results, these people will INSIST that finding a new one will surely do the trick! You suppose they could be right, but it seems daunting because you have no way of knowing which of the boat-finders have a good reputation, and you know that some can do more harm than good.
Some passers-by will go so far as to toss you the materials and instructions for building a new boat. But you are so busy trying to tread water, avoid sharks, and stay afloat when the waves come crashing over you, that you are unable to catch and hold onto all of the items they tossed your way, let alone figure out how to fit them all together. If they could, perhaps, stay near you to hand you the pieces a few at a time and read the instructions to you until you can just get the base built...but they are busy with their own journey and have already left.
Sometimes a person will come near you, become offended by some of
your unconventional attempts to stay afloat, and quickly move away.
Sometimes a boat-finder will come near you, and your hopes will rise! The boat-finder is an EXPERT and has years of experience helping people find their boats, after all. And you have heard stories from and about others who were helped by a boat-finder! You explain your situation; the boat-finder gives you a raft which s/he hopes will help you find your boat more quickly and tells you that s/he will check in with you in 4-6 weeks to see if the raft is helping you at all. As you watch the boat-finder float away, you are so grateful for this raft and the promise it holds of some protection from the ocean and progress towards finding your boat!
But after a few days, you realize the raft has some serious flaws, isn't making your journey any easier, you haven't actually made any progress towards finding your boat after all, and it will be a long 4-6 weeks before the boat-finder returns. You survive until then, and the boat-finder gives you a different raft, but this one actually moves you farther away from your boat. The next time the boat-finder gives you a raft, it seems to work right at the start but then stops functioning before too many days have passed.
You drift out of that particular boat-finder's area, but still no closer to your boat, and it becomes necessary to watch for a new boat-finder, knowing that you will need to explain everything all over again when you find one. With each visit from a boat-finder, you have a little less hope in the subsequent rafts you are given.
Sometimes a friend will pass by, notice your struggle, and offer to hold your hand and float along near you for a while, so you won't be alone. Or you pass by another friend who has also lost her boat and you are
able to hold her hand and tread water together. Although some part of you worries that your weight might drag your friend down with you, you hope that is not true because having a hand to hold makes it a little
easier for you to stay afloat, especially when the large waves come. And a small part of you even dares to hope that holding hands might be helping your friend too.
Sometimes a friend is able to give you an emergency flotation device which lifts your spirits as well as your body and gives you a desperately needed boost of hope and energy.
Sometimes the strong waves stop crashing over you for a brief period, and you are able to gather your strength and even enjoy the scenery for a few minutes.
And if you can hold on long enough, sometimes you will find a raft that is a perfect fit, with no leaks or structural issues, and, once again, you have hope that you will be able to find your boat someday. But you realize that even if you never find your original boat, the raft is a VAST improvement over your previous situation, and you are confident that you will be able to make better progress on your ocean journey than you were able to without it.
Thursday, February 1, 2018
Monday, March 20, 2017
My Experience Getting Siding Quotes
Helpful tips:
1) Unless you enjoy dealing with stressful situations face to face, request email quotes from anyone who does not leave you with a detailed quote. For those who leave a detailed quote, tell them you will email if you have any questions.
2) These guys seem to have a different definition of time than I do. Terms such as "later tonight", "tomorrow", and "a day or two" did not translate in the way to which I am accustomed. I think most of these guys really enjoy doing the actual jobs but do not enjoy the writing-up-the-detailed-quotes part.
*******
As you will see, I did not ask all of the questions to all of the Quoters because it took me a few experiences to figure out what I needed to ask. But I have written down those questions with my notes on that company's page so that I can ask them if I have further contact with the Quoter.
One of the companies I called, and left a message requesting an appointment to get a quote, never called back; I doubt I'll make an appointment with them if they ever return my call.
Quote #1
This is a family-owned company that offers: a lifetime warranty on workmanship (I forgot to ask if that meant "parts and labor"), in-house financing (meaning: the company is offering the financing, you don't have to go find a bank that will lend you money), and a 10% military discount.
When I called this company, a secretary answered and, that day, arranged an appointment for me. Quoter #1 was scheduled to arrive at 10:30 Monday morning. At 11:00 Monday morning, I called the office to see if there had been a misunderstanding about the time. Secretary contacted Quoter and called me back to let me know that he would be here at 2:30 instead (apparently he had originally heard the secretary wrong). Imagine my surprise when at 12:30, in the middle of my stupid-needed-daily-nap, the doorbell rang, and it was Quoter #1! He was in the area and thought he'd drop by; he didn't expect to find me at home and was pleasantly surprised when I was there.
He was friendly towards my children and a little chatty while he gave me the spiel. He asked me if all of the kids were mine or was I fostering some of them, which I took in a "Wow! You must be an AWESOME, AMAZING woman to choose to give birth to FIVE KIDS" way because I think that's how he meant it. He told me that the company used to mainly be storm chasers (coming in after heavy storms to fix the damage done by the storm), but that the owner's son had recently bought a house and then found out his wife was expecting child #3, so he convinced his dad to let him try doing business through advertising and word-of-mouth in the area instead of traveling to storm damaged areas; his dad said he could try it for a year and see how it went.
I had not yet thought to ask about the sunroom siding to see what his answer would be, but I told him we were not planning to replace it and he did not try to convince me otherwise.
He was selling Market Square siding (which another Quoter referred to as Crane siding).
I forgot to ask him how long it would take them to schedule this job and complete it.
At the end, he told me he would have Owner give me a quote (I requested an e-mailed quote) in a day or two. I hadn't heard anything by Wednesday, so I called him to check on that, and he told me that he had been planning to call me that day to let me know that the quote would still be a day or two. Also, he had forgotten to take some needed measurements, so when would be a good time for him to come back? I scheduled him to come back at 2:00 on Thursday. He arrived on time and brought Son with him. (Son looked to be in his early 30s and could probably tell me which Hogwarts house he was in.) It took them 20 or so minutes to take the measurements, and they left because another Quoter was trying to come by right then too.
That evening Son emailed me a quote of $11,750 with a military discount of 10% which made the total: $10,575. I didn't know then to ask about how many vents were included or if this price included any wood behind the siding that might need to be replaced; if I was planning to use this company, I would email or call to ask about that. (See update below)
In the process of emailing me, Son told me that if you add fanfold (insulation) behind the siding you do not also need to add a moisture barrier (Tyvec and Polar Wrap were specifically mentioned by various Quoters) because "the fanfold has one on it" (which makes me wonder why 2 of the other companies use a moisture barrier along with the fanfold...perhaps they are being thorough? Perhaps it offers more protection to your house that way?). He also told me that although the siding and soffit will be vinyl, the fashcia will still be aluminum.
My impressions: this is a company that is motivated to do good work so they can grow their business. Quoter was new at quoting, and, therefore, a little awkward, but seemed like a good guy; didn't try to sell me anything unnecessary and wasn't pushy. This company is used to people needing them desperately and so their sales spiel isn't quite as polished as some of the other companies.
UPDATE: Son emailed me a few days after sending the quote to check in, see if I had any questions, and find out if there was anything they could do "to earn my business". Bonus points for the email check-in! I asked him about the things I had forgotten to ask him about before and he said:
I copied his answers and put them above because they give some good information.
I also asked him to give me a quote to have all of the gutters and downspouts replaced, and the price for that was an additional $1249.65-10% military discount= $1124.69
*******
Quote #2
This was a larger company. They offered manufacturer's warranty on product, 5 year labor warranty, warranty was transferable, financing, and a $50 military discount. I had to leave a message but someone called me back the same day to schedule the appointment for Tuesday.
Quoter #2 arrived on time and was practiced at giving quotes. When asked about the sunroom siding, he encouraged me to get that replaced also because "eventually it will start soaking up water" (technically true, but "eventually" is likely to be 20+ years from now). He did not offer an opinion between the fanfold insulation behind the siding or the insulation built in to the siding but gave me quotes for both. He also mentioned, rightly, that the soffit and fascia on the sunroom was badly done and should be replaced.
He was selling Mastic siding.
It would be 2-3 weeks before they could start my job and it would take 5-6 days to complete it.
He gave me a detailed quote before he left. Quote did not include the price of any wood that might need to be replaced but did list the price if that were needed to be done. Quote included the price of 1 octagon vent and 0 soffit vents (which I am told are very important).
Quote for the main house, with fanfold behind the siding: $9,675; to do the sunroom: another $1,795. If I wanted the built-in insulation instead: +$1,600 to the main house quote and $300 to the sunroom price. And then -$50 for the military discount.
My impressions: although this Quoter encouraged me to replace the sunroom siding, he didn't pressure me about choosing the more expensive siding option. I worry that things might come up, like wood needing to be replaced, that would increase the final cost of this project, and I would wonder they were being honest with me.
UPDATE: Secretary called to see if I had any questions 10 days after Quoter #2 gave me his quote.
*******
Quote #3
This is a local, veteran-owned company. They offer a lifetime warranty on parts and labor. They use 3-layers on their siding jobs: fanfold/backer board insulation, Tyvec moisture wrap, and then the siding. Someone answered the phone when I called and was able to make an appointment for me for Wednesday.
Quoter #3 arrived on time and was very adamant about his company's focus on doing a quality job. He mentioned several times that he knew he would not be my lowest quote and he was okay with that because they were very focused on QUALITY. He did not try to sell me siding for the sunroom, but agreed that the fascia and soffit should be replaced (I neglected to have him add that to my quote). He was a bit pushy about wanting the names and quote amounts of the other companies and seemed inclined to badmouth them. (We should be wary of people "working out of their trucks with no showroom" and who use subcontractors.)
He was selling Mastic siding and mentioned that they currently have a 20% rebate running on their siding.
It would be 4-6 weeks before they could start my job, and it would take 2 weeks to complete it.
He gave me a detailed quote before he left. Quote included the price of any wood on the house that would need to be replaced, 3 octagon vents, and fittings around any faucets or light fixtures that are currently in the siding.
Quote was: $18,500, -20% rebate, -$750 coupon=$14,050.
My impressions: this guy is VERY CERTAIN that his company does EXCELLENT work and is very suspicious of any other company that claims to do excellent work. He is proud of his company's reputation for doing QUALITY work. His language was much more colorful than the other Quoters.
*******
Quote #4
This is a local, family-owned company. They offer financing, a lifetime warranty on parts and labor, with a transferable warranty available. They also use 3 layers for siding jobs. Right on the ad it said "No high pressure sales tactics", so that gave me hope. This Quoter gave a GENEROUS military discount. I had to leave a message when I called, and Quoter, who is also the Owner, called me back 3 days later to set up an appointment for Thursday. He did call the day of the appointment to see if he could reschedule for a different time, but when I told him the new time wouldn't work for me, he asked if 15-30 minutes later than planned would be okay; it was and he arrived during that time.
Quoter #4 also stressed his personal commitment to do an EXCELLENT, DETAILED job. He mentioned several times that he pays great attention to detail and makes certain the homeowner is happy before he accepts payment. He grew up in a m!l!tary family and has an excellent understanding of the sacrifices involved in this lifestyle.
Early on in the conversation, he said, "You're going to replace the gutters, RIGHT *pointed look at me*?" My he's-trying-to-jack-the-price-up alarm bells rang, but it turned out that this Quoter has a good eye for design and the current gutters (which are white when everything else on the house is beige or off white or tan) were offending his sense of design 😂. Even so, I was curious to see how much the new gutters were going to cost me. This Quoter was excited to talk to me about the new color(s) of siding in the same way I am excited to talk to someone about colors for a new crocheted blanket 😍, BUT he's better at choosing colors than I am, so I don't have to worry about choosing on my own and wondering if it will look good!
This Quoter has been doing this for 23 years and has obviously learned A LOT. He was able to take his measurements and give me an informal quote (detailed quote to be sent later) in about 30 minutes. He has put together a dedicated siding crew that he is very proud of and, since he uses that one well-trained crew, his company can only do a certain number of siding jobs per year. (Nevertheless, there was no pressure to hurry up and schedule before they got booked!)
I asked for his opinion on the siding on the sunroom and he said it was fine and should last for a good many years still but agreed that the soffit and fascia need to be redone.
He uses, and strongly prefers, the Market Square Crane siding. He prefers Polar Wrap instead of Tyvec to wrap the house.
We talked about how far out they were scheduling but I didn't ask for a firm date because I'm not in a hurry. He said the job should take about a week to do.
He mentioned, again giving the evil eye to the current light fixture 😂, that if we wanted to replace any light fixtures and we purchased them and had them there, he would be happy to install those for us as they are replacing the siding.
His quote includes all of the above-mentioned things, replacing the gutters, replacing the soffit and fascia on the sunroom, replacing any rotted wood they come across (At this point I was bracing myself for the discovery of how much all of this wonderful detail and design was going to cost), with a VERY generous military discount: $9,800 (my mouth actually fell open). He promised to send a detailed quote in a few days, and I am anxiously awaiting that while hoping that interaction was not some sort of cruel hallucination on my part.
My impressions: this Quoter has lots of experience and is VERY proud of his attention to detail, the quality of his work, and the reputation of his company.
UPDATE: Two days after I met with Quoter #4, I called to ask him about something and mentioned I was looking forward to seeing his quote; nobody answered, so I left a message. Eight days after meeting with him, Iwas battling despair that it had all been a dream emailed to ask if he'd had a chance to write up the quote yet. Two days after that he emailed back to say that he had sent the quote 4 days earlier and asked if I had received it. He called later that day to tell me that he had been having computer problems but he had sent the quote again and could I check and see if I had received it this time. The quote came through detailed and at the price he had given me before! He did mention that it would be wonderful if I could manage another $1,000, and since I have seen 6 other quotes and strongly suspect he is charging me as close as he can to the actual cost of this job, I will gladly add that amount and still consider myself VERY LUCKY.
*******
Quote #5
This company was personally recommended to me by 2 people I know, one of whom is a realtor, so I had high hopes for this one. This is a local, family-owned company with 13 years experience. They offer a limited lifetime warranty (I didn't ask what that meant). When I called to make an appointment, Quoter #5, who is also the owner of the company, answered but did not set up an appointment for me; he said he would drop by sometime in the coming week and would call before he came over.
He called right as I was answering the door for Quoter #1's return visit, so Ian talked to him, told him that we had another company over but that he was welcome to come when they were done. While #1 was re-measuring, #5 drove by, saw the other trucks, and parked around the corner. After a few minutes (#1 and Owner took much longer than I expected) he texted me that he would try again on a different day, but I was able to text back quickly and say that the other guys were supposed to be finishing up, so #5 waited. When the other guys finally finished, #5 came over.
Quoter #5 is very comfortable with his company's excellent reputation for doing great work.
I didn't ask him a lot of questions becauseI was still thinking dreamily of Quoter #4 starting to get weary of talking to siding people. But I did ask him about the sunroom and he said the siding was fine.
He was selling Mastic siding. I forget if he mentioned insulation.
He uses a specialized siding crew and thought the job would take about 14 working days.
He gave me a somewhat detailed quote before he left. His quote, after I asked about a military discount and he assured me he was giving me a great price, was: $18,750. He did not mention the 20% manufacturer's rebate that Quoter #3 mentioned.
My impressions: I was QUITE surprised by #5's quote because, unlike #3, he did NOT assure me numerous times that he knew his quote wouldn't be the lowest because he was more focused on doing an excellent job. I think this guy assumed the recommendation from my realtor friend would seal the deal for him.
******
Quote #6
This company offers financing, a 5 year labor warranty, and a lifetime warranty on the siding. I had to leave a message when I called on Friday. I received 1/2 a message in return on Monday, and then Quoter called again on Tuesday and arranged an appointment for Friday.
Quoter #6 arrived on time and was obviously a salesman. He looked sheepish when I asked if his company used sub-contractors and he said yes. His company takes as many siding jobs as they can get in a year.
Despite being a salesman, Quoter #6 did not try to sell me unnecessary siding for the sunroom and told me in detail what was wrong with the gutter set-up on a certain part of the roof.
He was selling Crane siding with 1/4" or 1/2" backerboard.
It would be 6-8 weeks before his company could get to my job, and it would take a week or week and a half to complete.
He said he would send a quote that day or the next. He tried to send the quote Friday but the email returned to himEVEN THOUGH I CLEARLY WROTE MY EMAIL ADDRESS ON HIS PAPER, so he called Saturday morning to clear that up and made sure his message got through.
His quote includes venting in the soffit, more than 1 octagonal vent, replacing the soffit and fascia on the sunroom, but not replacing the gutters (although I thought I asked for that in the quote too):
$16,605.
My impressions: This company probably does a fine job. The salesman was mostly focused on making a good sale. I am more inclined to use one of the companies that has their own dedicated siding crew.
UPDATE: 5 days after emailing the quote, he called to check in and to see if I had any questions.
*******
Quote #7
This company was recommended to me by 2 friends who have each had work done by this company. I called this one a few days later than the others, the owner answered and made an appointment with me for a week after my first Tuesday quote.
He uses Mastic siding and uses one of the house wraps instead of the fanfold/backerboard.
He said it would be 6-8 weeks before his company could get to my job and it would take 1-2 weeks to complete.
He asked me if I was planning to replace the doors and I told him I had been thinking about it but that the others I had asked had said it would cost around $5,000 so that would have to wait until next year. His eyebrows went high and he said he didn't think it would cost that much if he did it.
He said he would send his quote in a day or two; it arrived 3 days later.
His quote includes venting in the soffit, replacing the soffit and fascia on the sunroom, and replacing the gutters and downspouts: $14,720. (To replace the 4 doors: $3,000; price could go up or down a bit depending on the specific door I chose)
My impressions: This is another family owned company with a lot of experience. This Quoter seemed like a really great guy; the kind of guy you wish was your dad and a grandpa to your kids. I'm sure he would do a great job.
UPDATE: He emailed the day after he sent the quote to ask if I had received it and what did I think? I bravely responded that I had received the quote and I thought it was about $3,000 more than the other quote I was considering (I still hadn't heard back from #4 at this point and was leaning towards #1.) and that I would really like to give his company my business; was that the best price he could do? Was there perhaps a military discount he had forgotten to apply? He responded that he was sure we could get the price down a little more and maybe we could split the difference.
*******
FINAL RESULTS: Quoter #4 is the clear winner! Sometime tomorrow I will email Quoters #1 and #6 and say something like: "I have decided to go with a different company. These are things I really liked about your company: _____________ and I will be happy to give your name to anyone who asks me for recommendations for home improvement projects in the future. Thank you for your time!"
1) Unless you enjoy dealing with stressful situations face to face, request email quotes from anyone who does not leave you with a detailed quote. For those who leave a detailed quote, tell them you will email if you have any questions.
2) These guys seem to have a different definition of time than I do. Terms such as "later tonight", "tomorrow", and "a day or two" did not translate in the way to which I am accustomed. I think most of these guys really enjoy doing the actual jobs but do not enjoy the writing-up-the-detailed-quotes part.
*******
As you will see, I did not ask all of the questions to all of the Quoters because it took me a few experiences to figure out what I needed to ask. But I have written down those questions with my notes on that company's page so that I can ask them if I have further contact with the Quoter.
One of the companies I called, and left a message requesting an appointment to get a quote, never called back; I doubt I'll make an appointment with them if they ever return my call.
Quote #1
This is a family-owned company that offers: a lifetime warranty on workmanship (I forgot to ask if that meant "parts and labor"), in-house financing (meaning: the company is offering the financing, you don't have to go find a bank that will lend you money), and a 10% military discount.
When I called this company, a secretary answered and, that day, arranged an appointment for me. Quoter #1 was scheduled to arrive at 10:30 Monday morning. At 11:00 Monday morning, I called the office to see if there had been a misunderstanding about the time. Secretary contacted Quoter and called me back to let me know that he would be here at 2:30 instead (apparently he had originally heard the secretary wrong). Imagine my surprise when at 12:30, in the middle of my stupid-needed-daily-nap, the doorbell rang, and it was Quoter #1! He was in the area and thought he'd drop by; he didn't expect to find me at home and was pleasantly surprised when I was there.
He was friendly towards my children and a little chatty while he gave me the spiel. He asked me if all of the kids were mine or was I fostering some of them, which I took in a "Wow! You must be an AWESOME, AMAZING woman to choose to give birth to FIVE KIDS" way because I think that's how he meant it. He told me that the company used to mainly be storm chasers (coming in after heavy storms to fix the damage done by the storm), but that the owner's son had recently bought a house and then found out his wife was expecting child #3, so he convinced his dad to let him try doing business through advertising and word-of-mouth in the area instead of traveling to storm damaged areas; his dad said he could try it for a year and see how it went.
I had not yet thought to ask about the sunroom siding to see what his answer would be, but I told him we were not planning to replace it and he did not try to convince me otherwise.
He was selling Market Square siding (which another Quoter referred to as Crane siding).
I forgot to ask him how long it would take them to schedule this job and complete it.
At the end, he told me he would have Owner give me a quote (I requested an e-mailed quote) in a day or two. I hadn't heard anything by Wednesday, so I called him to check on that, and he told me that he had been planning to call me that day to let me know that the quote would still be a day or two. Also, he had forgotten to take some needed measurements, so when would be a good time for him to come back? I scheduled him to come back at 2:00 on Thursday. He arrived on time and brought Son with him. (Son looked to be in his early 30s and could probably tell me which Hogwarts house he was in.) It took them 20 or so minutes to take the measurements, and they left because another Quoter was trying to come by right then too.
That evening Son emailed me a quote of $11,750 with a military discount of 10% which made the total: $10,575. I didn't know then to ask about how many vents were included or if this price included any wood behind the siding that might need to be replaced; if I was planning to use this company, I would email or call to ask about that. (See update below)
In the process of emailing me, Son told me that if you add fanfold (insulation) behind the siding you do not also need to add a moisture barrier (Tyvec and Polar Wrap were specifically mentioned by various Quoters) because "the fanfold has one on it" (which makes me wonder why 2 of the other companies use a moisture barrier along with the fanfold...perhaps they are being thorough? Perhaps it offers more protection to your house that way?). He also told me that although the siding and soffit will be vinyl, the fashcia will still be aluminum.
My impressions: this is a company that is motivated to do good work so they can grow their business. Quoter was new at quoting, and, therefore, a little awkward, but seemed like a good guy; didn't try to sell me anything unnecessary and wasn't pushy. This company is used to people needing them desperately and so their sales spiel isn't quite as polished as some of the other companies.
UPDATE: Son emailed me a few days after sending the quote to check in, see if I had any questions, and find out if there was anything they could do "to earn my business". Bonus points for the email check-in! I asked him about the things I had forgotten to ask him about before and he said:
Subcontractors: We do use “subcontractors” however its only bc of tax and workman’s comp reasons. To have roofing and siding employees on your payroll, your comp costs are out of the roof! There are very few contractors that have in house crews. Whether it being roofing, siding, or guttering. If anyone tells you different, I would encourage you to ask them for proof bc its very rare. The subs we use are not contractors like ourselves who market like we do to where we must mark it up so high to make a profit. That’s not how it works. These are basically installers, who have their own insurance, DBA’s/LLC’s, and get paid by 1099’s. I do not just hire anyone and put them out on a job All our installers for whatever the trade may be, have been working with my company for many years. Some of them have been with me for over 15yrs, but we continue to pay them through the 1099 process. My installer might do a job for another company from time to time, but you don’t need to worry about who I put on your property or whether they are insured or trustworthy or not. That’s why you hire [redacted]. I would be happy to explain more if you’d like. Just know, that our subs all have a min of 1-million-dollar liability policy, plus we have a 2-million-dollar policy. So, no matter what, you are covered all the way around, I promise you that.Vents in your soffit: When we install soffit, we typically use a 3 to 1 ratio. That means with every 3 pieces of soffit we use; one piece is vented. This way you are keeping the cost down, however still getting adequate intake vents in your soffit. There are a lot of products out there that have hidden vents, or solid venting, however its only as good as what your current venting is now. These are things we can go over on site with you one you commit, bc for the most part, it doesn’t really change the cost. Your gable soffit is non-vent usually so those soffits are solid.Rotten wood: The rotten wood cost is not in the quote, but if we do come across any we would notify you immediately and not hit you with some big hidden bill. That’s not how I operate at all. If we did come across any bad wood, usually it’s about 1.75/sf for plywood or 4.50-4.75/lf (depending on the wood) for any fascia boards.
(I asked his opinion on having the fanfold added behind the siding because one of the other companies didn't think it was necessary) Having the insulation behind the siding is beneficial more than just adding an extra R value. It also provides an extra layer of sound barrier, it comes with a moisture barrier, and it provides a surface to nail through that helps the walls to have straight lines. There are other siding products that have a backing to it, but you would need moisture barrier at that point. To answer your question, yes I definitely think it is worth the money to have it installed.
I copied his answers and put them above because they give some good information.
I also asked him to give me a quote to have all of the gutters and downspouts replaced, and the price for that was an additional $1249.65-10% military discount= $1124.69
*******
Quote #2
This was a larger company. They offered manufacturer's warranty on product, 5 year labor warranty, warranty was transferable, financing, and a $50 military discount. I had to leave a message but someone called me back the same day to schedule the appointment for Tuesday.
Quoter #2 arrived on time and was practiced at giving quotes. When asked about the sunroom siding, he encouraged me to get that replaced also because "eventually it will start soaking up water" (technically true, but "eventually" is likely to be 20+ years from now). He did not offer an opinion between the fanfold insulation behind the siding or the insulation built in to the siding but gave me quotes for both. He also mentioned, rightly, that the soffit and fascia on the sunroom was badly done and should be replaced.
He was selling Mastic siding.
It would be 2-3 weeks before they could start my job and it would take 5-6 days to complete it.
He gave me a detailed quote before he left. Quote did not include the price of any wood that might need to be replaced but did list the price if that were needed to be done. Quote included the price of 1 octagon vent and 0 soffit vents (which I am told are very important).
Quote for the main house, with fanfold behind the siding: $9,675; to do the sunroom: another $1,795. If I wanted the built-in insulation instead: +$1,600 to the main house quote and $300 to the sunroom price. And then -$50 for the military discount.
My impressions: although this Quoter encouraged me to replace the sunroom siding, he didn't pressure me about choosing the more expensive siding option. I worry that things might come up, like wood needing to be replaced, that would increase the final cost of this project, and I would wonder they were being honest with me.
UPDATE: Secretary called to see if I had any questions 10 days after Quoter #2 gave me his quote.
*******
Quote #3
This is a local, veteran-owned company. They offer a lifetime warranty on parts and labor. They use 3-layers on their siding jobs: fanfold/backer board insulation, Tyvec moisture wrap, and then the siding. Someone answered the phone when I called and was able to make an appointment for me for Wednesday.
Quoter #3 arrived on time and was very adamant about his company's focus on doing a quality job. He mentioned several times that he knew he would not be my lowest quote and he was okay with that because they were very focused on QUALITY. He did not try to sell me siding for the sunroom, but agreed that the fascia and soffit should be replaced (I neglected to have him add that to my quote). He was a bit pushy about wanting the names and quote amounts of the other companies and seemed inclined to badmouth them. (We should be wary of people "working out of their trucks with no showroom" and who use subcontractors.)
He was selling Mastic siding and mentioned that they currently have a 20% rebate running on their siding.
It would be 4-6 weeks before they could start my job, and it would take 2 weeks to complete it.
He gave me a detailed quote before he left. Quote included the price of any wood on the house that would need to be replaced, 3 octagon vents, and fittings around any faucets or light fixtures that are currently in the siding.
Quote was: $18,500, -20% rebate, -$750 coupon=$14,050.
My impressions: this guy is VERY CERTAIN that his company does EXCELLENT work and is very suspicious of any other company that claims to do excellent work. He is proud of his company's reputation for doing QUALITY work. His language was much more colorful than the other Quoters.
*******
Quote #4
This is a local, family-owned company. They offer financing, a lifetime warranty on parts and labor, with a transferable warranty available. They also use 3 layers for siding jobs. Right on the ad it said "No high pressure sales tactics", so that gave me hope. This Quoter gave a GENEROUS military discount. I had to leave a message when I called, and Quoter, who is also the Owner, called me back 3 days later to set up an appointment for Thursday. He did call the day of the appointment to see if he could reschedule for a different time, but when I told him the new time wouldn't work for me, he asked if 15-30 minutes later than planned would be okay; it was and he arrived during that time.
Quoter #4 also stressed his personal commitment to do an EXCELLENT, DETAILED job. He mentioned several times that he pays great attention to detail and makes certain the homeowner is happy before he accepts payment. He grew up in a m!l!tary family and has an excellent understanding of the sacrifices involved in this lifestyle.
Early on in the conversation, he said, "You're going to replace the gutters, RIGHT *pointed look at me*?" My he's-trying-to-jack-the-price-up alarm bells rang, but it turned out that this Quoter has a good eye for design and the current gutters (which are white when everything else on the house is beige or off white or tan) were offending his sense of design 😂. Even so, I was curious to see how much the new gutters were going to cost me. This Quoter was excited to talk to me about the new color(s) of siding in the same way I am excited to talk to someone about colors for a new crocheted blanket 😍, BUT he's better at choosing colors than I am, so I don't have to worry about choosing on my own and wondering if it will look good!
This Quoter has been doing this for 23 years and has obviously learned A LOT. He was able to take his measurements and give me an informal quote (detailed quote to be sent later) in about 30 minutes. He has put together a dedicated siding crew that he is very proud of and, since he uses that one well-trained crew, his company can only do a certain number of siding jobs per year. (Nevertheless, there was no pressure to hurry up and schedule before they got booked!)
I asked for his opinion on the siding on the sunroom and he said it was fine and should last for a good many years still but agreed that the soffit and fascia need to be redone.
He uses, and strongly prefers, the Market Square Crane siding. He prefers Polar Wrap instead of Tyvec to wrap the house.
We talked about how far out they were scheduling but I didn't ask for a firm date because I'm not in a hurry. He said the job should take about a week to do.
He mentioned, again giving the evil eye to the current light fixture 😂, that if we wanted to replace any light fixtures and we purchased them and had them there, he would be happy to install those for us as they are replacing the siding.
His quote includes all of the above-mentioned things, replacing the gutters, replacing the soffit and fascia on the sunroom, replacing any rotted wood they come across (At this point I was bracing myself for the discovery of how much all of this wonderful detail and design was going to cost), with a VERY generous military discount: $9,800 (my mouth actually fell open). He promised to send a detailed quote in a few days, and I am anxiously awaiting that while hoping that interaction was not some sort of cruel hallucination on my part.
My impressions: this Quoter has lots of experience and is VERY proud of his attention to detail, the quality of his work, and the reputation of his company.
UPDATE: Two days after I met with Quoter #4, I called to ask him about something and mentioned I was looking forward to seeing his quote; nobody answered, so I left a message. Eight days after meeting with him, I
*******
Quote #5
This company was personally recommended to me by 2 people I know, one of whom is a realtor, so I had high hopes for this one. This is a local, family-owned company with 13 years experience. They offer a limited lifetime warranty (I didn't ask what that meant). When I called to make an appointment, Quoter #5, who is also the owner of the company, answered but did not set up an appointment for me; he said he would drop by sometime in the coming week and would call before he came over.
He called right as I was answering the door for Quoter #1's return visit, so Ian talked to him, told him that we had another company over but that he was welcome to come when they were done. While #1 was re-measuring, #5 drove by, saw the other trucks, and parked around the corner. After a few minutes (#1 and Owner took much longer than I expected) he texted me that he would try again on a different day, but I was able to text back quickly and say that the other guys were supposed to be finishing up, so #5 waited. When the other guys finally finished, #5 came over.
Quoter #5 is very comfortable with his company's excellent reputation for doing great work.
I didn't ask him a lot of questions because
He was selling Mastic siding. I forget if he mentioned insulation.
He uses a specialized siding crew and thought the job would take about 14 working days.
He gave me a somewhat detailed quote before he left. His quote, after I asked about a military discount and he assured me he was giving me a great price, was: $18,750. He did not mention the 20% manufacturer's rebate that Quoter #3 mentioned.
My impressions: I was QUITE surprised by #5's quote because, unlike #3, he did NOT assure me numerous times that he knew his quote wouldn't be the lowest because he was more focused on doing an excellent job. I think this guy assumed the recommendation from my realtor friend would seal the deal for him.
******
Quote #6
This company offers financing, a 5 year labor warranty, and a lifetime warranty on the siding. I had to leave a message when I called on Friday. I received 1/2 a message in return on Monday, and then Quoter called again on Tuesday and arranged an appointment for Friday.
Quoter #6 arrived on time and was obviously a salesman. He looked sheepish when I asked if his company used sub-contractors and he said yes. His company takes as many siding jobs as they can get in a year.
Despite being a salesman, Quoter #6 did not try to sell me unnecessary siding for the sunroom and told me in detail what was wrong with the gutter set-up on a certain part of the roof.
He was selling Crane siding with 1/4" or 1/2" backerboard.
It would be 6-8 weeks before his company could get to my job, and it would take a week or week and a half to complete.
He said he would send a quote that day or the next. He tried to send the quote Friday but the email returned to him
His quote includes venting in the soffit, more than 1 octagonal vent, replacing the soffit and fascia on the sunroom, but not replacing the gutters (although I thought I asked for that in the quote too):
$16,605.
My impressions: This company probably does a fine job. The salesman was mostly focused on making a good sale. I am more inclined to use one of the companies that has their own dedicated siding crew.
UPDATE: 5 days after emailing the quote, he called to check in and to see if I had any questions.
*******
Quote #7
This company was recommended to me by 2 friends who have each had work done by this company. I called this one a few days later than the others, the owner answered and made an appointment with me for a week after my first Tuesday quote.
He uses Mastic siding and uses one of the house wraps instead of the fanfold/backerboard.
He said it would be 6-8 weeks before his company could get to my job and it would take 1-2 weeks to complete.
He asked me if I was planning to replace the doors and I told him I had been thinking about it but that the others I had asked had said it would cost around $5,000 so that would have to wait until next year. His eyebrows went high and he said he didn't think it would cost that much if he did it.
He said he would send his quote in a day or two; it arrived 3 days later.
His quote includes venting in the soffit, replacing the soffit and fascia on the sunroom, and replacing the gutters and downspouts: $14,720. (To replace the 4 doors: $3,000; price could go up or down a bit depending on the specific door I chose)
My impressions: This is another family owned company with a lot of experience. This Quoter seemed like a really great guy; the kind of guy you wish was your dad and a grandpa to your kids. I'm sure he would do a great job.
UPDATE: He emailed the day after he sent the quote to ask if I had received it and what did I think? I bravely responded that I had received the quote and I thought it was about $3,000 more than the other quote I was considering (I still hadn't heard back from #4 at this point and was leaning towards #1.) and that I would really like to give his company my business; was that the best price he could do? Was there perhaps a military discount he had forgotten to apply? He responded that he was sure we could get the price down a little more and maybe we could split the difference.
*******
FINAL RESULTS: Quoter #4 is the clear winner! Sometime tomorrow I will email Quoters #1 and #6 and say something like: "I have decided to go with a different company. These are things I really liked about your company: _____________ and I will be happy to give your name to anyone who asks me for recommendations for home improvement projects in the future. Thank you for your time!"
Friday, March 10, 2017
PSA: How to Get Quotes for Replacing the Siding On Your House (Edited)
We are supposed to move AGAIN *WEARY SIGH* in about 2 years, and our siding DESPERATELY needs to be replaced before we try to sell this house. Even though it's been nearly 4 years since I came house hunting, I STILL remember pulling up to this house and thinking "Ew. It sure doesn't look good from the outside!" specifically because of the siding and the garage door, which were both YEEEEEEEARS old and not in good shape.
Here are some of the things I have learned during this experience of getting siding quotes.
Things to Keep in Mind
Most of these companies are run by people who take great pride in doing their work very well and in having an excellent reputation. Some of the companies are more concerned with making money and doing as many jobs as come their way. I've heard that some companies do terrible work and are out to make as much money as possible; I'm not CERTAIN, since I'm not going to choose that company, but I think I may have found one company like that.
To Choose Which Companies to Call*
*If you know me, you know how I feel about CALLING, but it is nearly unavoidable in this case. Some of the websites did have a form to fill out to request a quote, but the form was basically giving them your name, phone number, and a description of what you want done so someone could call you back. I prefer calling to waiting to be called back.
I asked friends and neighbors, the guy who sold me my new garage door, and I looked through those community coupon booklets (Reach) and envelopes (ValPak) that come in the mail. I ended up with 6 companies from the coupons, and 4 companies from the people I asked. I looked at the companies' websites (some of the personally recommended people did not have detailed websites; this did not bother me because I figure those guys are smaller businesses and busy doing the job instead of designing, or paying someone to design, a website) and checked them on the BBB website. All of the companies I looked at had links on their website to their page on the BBB website.
If you happen to have someone coming to do another home improvement, like I had the garage door being replaced, ask that person if they know if any companies who do siding. I was really lucky because one of the guys who came to give me a garage door quote had been in the home improvement business for a long time, and he also had experience with siding, so I was able to ask him to give me a rough estimate of what I could expect when I had the siding companies start to come. This was very helpful information to get from someone who was not trying to sell me that product. (He said it should cost between $9,000-$12,000.)
Call in February or March
I called during the first week of March because it took me a while to figure out how to choose which companies I wanted to call. April, May, and June are when siding jobs really pick up (depending on the weather where you live). Even calling in March, I am told it will be 4-6 weeks before they can start this job. It's good to plan ahead and leave yourself plenty of time to get this done.
Terms to Know
The frequently used terms for this project are: siding, soffit, and fascia. Here is an excellent article explaining what these are: https://www.angieslist.com/articles/understanding-fascia-and-soffit-repair.htm
In this post, I'm using the term "Quoter" to refer to the person who comes to your house to give you a quote. Sometimes that person will be the owner of the business, sometimes it will be a salesperson whose job it is to JUST sell the siding, and sometimes it will be a person who works for the company and sells AND installs the siding.
To Organize Information
I used a notebook this time, but if I have to do this again, this is what I will do. Start a word processing document; save it as "Siding Quotes". Put the name of the company at the top of a page, along with their phone number and website address. Make notes about the things mentioned in their coupon ad: warranty information, was financing mentioned, is it a family-owned company, what was the coupon discount, etc. When I called to make the appointment, at the top of the page, I wrote the date, time, and person who was coming. I also clipped the coupon to the page. Next time, I will copy the questions below so that I can quickly fill in the answers while I am speaking with the Quoter. I'll print out the page for that company the day before the appointment, put it on a clipboard or folder, and clip a pen or pencil to it so I will be all ready to write things down when the Quoter arrives.
The Basic Procedure
The Quoter comes to the door. I answer the door with notebook and pen in hand and go directly outside. Quoter asks me: what it is I want done (to have the siding, soffits, and fascia replaced), What kind of product do I want to replace it with (good quality vinyl siding and what sort of insulation do you use with that?), Do I know what color I want (see below under "Taking the Stress out of..."), Do I know which style I'm interested in (Dutchlap), Do I also want to replace the rain gutters (you can say yes or that you'd like them to reuse the ones you have; either way you are paying to have them removed and installed, unless you don't have them already), Do I have any questions (this is where I would ask the questions listed below, if they haven't come up already in the course of our conversation)?
Then Quoter tells me he will take some measurements and then check back in with me; this has taken anywhere from 30-90 minutes. Quoter knocks on the door again, or calls me from my driveway, I go back outside with my notebook and pen, and he either tells me that he has all the information he needs and will work up a quote for me (I request that he email me a detailed quote), or he explains the detailed quote right then and hands me a copy. I ask any questions I've forgotten to ask before or that have occurred to me while I've been in the house mulling things over, and thank him for his time. If he tries to put out any feelers about other quotes I've received, I either say, "I'm still waiting for them to get that quote to me" or "So far I've been quoted (the general amount of previous quotes)". If you give them the numbers of the previous quotes, this gives them the chance to improve their price and/or explain to you why the other guy's price is so low (and what they say is revealing: do they say the other guy's price is so low because he does crappy work or do they say the other guy has just given you a really excellent price?) But if you're not in the mood to take the chance that someone is going to explain to you in great detail why the other guy is terrible, stick with "I'm still waiting for the other quotes to come in" or "I'd rather not talk specifics". (I'm not saying some companies don't do crappy work, and it would be good to know that; you can generally tell by the other things the Quoter has said if he's giving you valid information or just trying to badmouth the other company(ies).)
Taking the Stress out of the High Pressure Sales Tactics
High pressure sales tactics are NOT MY FAVORITE. So far, none of my Quoters have been very pushy. It might help that I am asking questions which indicate I have some knowledge about this procedure, and I am also writing things down, and occasionally flipping back to something a previous Quoter has told me, as the current Quoter talks to me.
To further head off any pushy sales tactics, casually mention sometime during your conversation that you are currently getting quotes from a number of companies. A good time to do this might be at the beginning, when the Quoter asks you about your color preferences. They all have similar colors, and you can also find that information on the manufacturers website, so, unless your sole purpose of replacing your siding is to get the colors you've always dreamed of, when the Quoter asks what you're thinking about colors, say something like, "Oh, I'm still gathering information right now; I'll look at colors once I've decided which company I'm going with." This lets the Quoter know that a) color is not your first concern, b) you are not desperate to get this done TODAY so you have time to think about your decision, and c) you are looking at multiple companies. It also shortens the time you have to talk to him since you then do not need to have a lengthy discussion about colors. (Although, asking what he would recommend is another good question for finding out what kind of person he is and what kind of experience he has, as mentioned in the next topic below.)
Upon finding out that you are considering multiple companies, Quoter will likely fish for information about which other companies are giving you quotes; some are more subtle about this fishing than others. This set off my "this seems like a socially unacceptable/rude/TMI question" alarm bells the first time it happened, so it's good to know this is likely to be coming. Decide whether you'd like to say, "I'd rather not go into specifics" or "I'm getting quotes from these companies:_________; what can you tell me about them?" Again, this is a good opportunity to find out what kind of a person you are dealing with. Are you dealing with someone who tries to grow their business by badmouthing other companies? Does this person have the integrity to give you an honest assessment of the other companies, especially if it is a positive assessment?
I was very impressed with garage door Quoter #2 because when I told him who I got the other quote from he said, "Oh, they do really good work and sell a good product!" He was also honest with me about the excellent price the first Quoter gave me and that he couldn't meet that price. I will happily recommend him, along with Quoter #1, the next time someone asks about getting garage work done!
Asking Questions
Asking questions is a really good way to find out about the integrity, personality, and experience of the person you are talking to. It also tells the person that you have enough information to be able to ask the right questions and so are not completely at their mercy. It is good to ask some questions that you already know the answers to so that you can see how this person would treat someone who didn't know the answers.
I recommend having something like this ready, "We're also thinking about replacing (something that doesn't actually need to be replaced) because (we aren't sure how long it's been here or we aren't sure if it's in good shape); what would you recommend for that?" In my case, I ask them about the siding on the sunroom that was added to the house sometime in the past few years. So far, only one of the six Quoters has tried to convince me to replace that siding (which does not need to be replaced).
When the Quoter starts giving you his sales spiel, he will tell you LOTS of things. Chances are he will mention the answers to the questions I will list below, but, if not, these are some things that you will want to know:
*******Edited to add*******
How did I forget the BEST QUESTION EVER?! Depending on your personality, and to keep him on his toes, it might also be fun to ask your Quoter which Hogwarts house he is in =D!
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-Do you use subcontractors or do you have a siding crew on staff? (Many of the Quoters frown on subcontractors because their quality of work may not be as well-known as on staff crew.)
-How many houses do you side each year? (You want the company to have experience, but do you want a company that's fitting in as many jobs as possible?)
-Do you use fanfold/backerboard insulation or the insulation built-in to the siding? Why do you use that instead of the other? (The built-in insulation is more expensive; most of my quoters use fanfold or backerboard insulation behind the siding, although that kind doesn't add much to your energy efficiency. The fanfold/backerboard insulation was 1/4" with mention of a possible 1/2" and an R value of between 1-2.)
-What is the thickness of the siding? (.044" thickness has been the standard answer in my experience.)
-Which brand of siding do you use? Why do you prefer that brand? (The two brands I've been quoted are Crane and Mastic. There can be some strongly held personal opinions about which brand is better.)
-What is the charge if you find any rotting wood when you take down the old siding? (Some quoters itemize this charge-meaning, they listed the price that would be charged if that came up but that wasn't included in the quote, some have included it as part of the total job. This is a place where you could end up with additional charges, if this is not included in the total job.)
-How many vents are included? (Again, some quoters itemize this charge, some have included it as part of the total job.)
-Does the quote include the cost of any fittings (where lights, faucets, etc are on the siding)? (I did not know to ask this question until the last Quoter mentioned that this cost was included in his quote.)
-Which color(s) would you recommend for this house? (As he answered, it became apparent that one of my Quoters had a good eye for design, so I was glad I asked!) (Because I cannot visualize how something is going to look until it is done. Which is too late.)
-How far out are you scheduling this job right now? (4-6 weeks has been the standard response here.)
-How long will the job take? (I've been told anywhere from 1-2 weeks, weather dependent.)
-Do you offer a teacher/military/police officer/firefighter discount?
-What is your warranty for parts and labor and is it transferable (if you know you'll be selling your house)? (I've been told that, since we know we will be selling the house soon, I can get a transferable warranty, which is supposed to be a good selling point.)
-Is your company bonded and insured? (This has generally been mentioned in the coupon ad or on the website.)
Things to Write on Your Paper about Each Company
-Did Quoter arrive on time for the appointment or call to communicate any delays?
-How quickly did someone return your call if you had to leave a message somewhere?
-Did Quoter email the quote when he said he would?
-Did Quoter speak respectfully to you?
-Did Quoter try to sell you something unnecessary?
*******
Once all of the quotes have come in and I've decided on a company, I will blog about my experience with each company's Quoter, but for your information (in case you're in the middle of this right now and need some hope), keeping in mind that the garage guy said to expect between $9,000-$12,000, here are the quotes (which I will comment on in more detail in the next post) I've received so far: $9675, $9800, $10,575, $14,050, and $18,750.
Here are some of the things I have learned during this experience of getting siding quotes.
Things to Keep in Mind
Most of these companies are run by people who take great pride in doing their work very well and in having an excellent reputation. Some of the companies are more concerned with making money and doing as many jobs as come their way. I've heard that some companies do terrible work and are out to make as much money as possible; I'm not CERTAIN, since I'm not going to choose that company, but I think I may have found one company like that.
To Choose Which Companies to Call*
*If you know me, you know how I feel about CALLING, but it is nearly unavoidable in this case. Some of the websites did have a form to fill out to request a quote, but the form was basically giving them your name, phone number, and a description of what you want done so someone could call you back. I prefer calling to waiting to be called back.
I asked friends and neighbors, the guy who sold me my new garage door, and I looked through those community coupon booklets (Reach) and envelopes (ValPak) that come in the mail. I ended up with 6 companies from the coupons, and 4 companies from the people I asked. I looked at the companies' websites (some of the personally recommended people did not have detailed websites; this did not bother me because I figure those guys are smaller businesses and busy doing the job instead of designing, or paying someone to design, a website) and checked them on the BBB website. All of the companies I looked at had links on their website to their page on the BBB website.
If you happen to have someone coming to do another home improvement, like I had the garage door being replaced, ask that person if they know if any companies who do siding. I was really lucky because one of the guys who came to give me a garage door quote had been in the home improvement business for a long time, and he also had experience with siding, so I was able to ask him to give me a rough estimate of what I could expect when I had the siding companies start to come. This was very helpful information to get from someone who was not trying to sell me that product. (He said it should cost between $9,000-$12,000.)
Call in February or March
I called during the first week of March because it took me a while to figure out how to choose which companies I wanted to call. April, May, and June are when siding jobs really pick up (depending on the weather where you live). Even calling in March, I am told it will be 4-6 weeks before they can start this job. It's good to plan ahead and leave yourself plenty of time to get this done.
Terms to Know
The frequently used terms for this project are: siding, soffit, and fascia. Here is an excellent article explaining what these are: https://www.angieslist.com/articles/understanding-fascia-and-soffit-repair.htm
In this post, I'm using the term "Quoter" to refer to the person who comes to your house to give you a quote. Sometimes that person will be the owner of the business, sometimes it will be a salesperson whose job it is to JUST sell the siding, and sometimes it will be a person who works for the company and sells AND installs the siding.
To Organize Information
I used a notebook this time, but if I have to do this again, this is what I will do. Start a word processing document; save it as "Siding Quotes". Put the name of the company at the top of a page, along with their phone number and website address. Make notes about the things mentioned in their coupon ad: warranty information, was financing mentioned, is it a family-owned company, what was the coupon discount, etc. When I called to make the appointment, at the top of the page, I wrote the date, time, and person who was coming. I also clipped the coupon to the page. Next time, I will copy the questions below so that I can quickly fill in the answers while I am speaking with the Quoter. I'll print out the page for that company the day before the appointment, put it on a clipboard or folder, and clip a pen or pencil to it so I will be all ready to write things down when the Quoter arrives.
The Basic Procedure
The Quoter comes to the door. I answer the door with notebook and pen in hand and go directly outside. Quoter asks me: what it is I want done (to have the siding, soffits, and fascia replaced), What kind of product do I want to replace it with (good quality vinyl siding and what sort of insulation do you use with that?), Do I know what color I want (see below under "Taking the Stress out of..."), Do I know which style I'm interested in (Dutchlap), Do I also want to replace the rain gutters (you can say yes or that you'd like them to reuse the ones you have; either way you are paying to have them removed and installed, unless you don't have them already), Do I have any questions (this is where I would ask the questions listed below, if they haven't come up already in the course of our conversation)?
Then Quoter tells me he will take some measurements and then check back in with me; this has taken anywhere from 30-90 minutes. Quoter knocks on the door again, or calls me from my driveway, I go back outside with my notebook and pen, and he either tells me that he has all the information he needs and will work up a quote for me (I request that he email me a detailed quote), or he explains the detailed quote right then and hands me a copy. I ask any questions I've forgotten to ask before or that have occurred to me while I've been in the house mulling things over, and thank him for his time. If he tries to put out any feelers about other quotes I've received, I either say, "I'm still waiting for them to get that quote to me" or "So far I've been quoted (the general amount of previous quotes)". If you give them the numbers of the previous quotes, this gives them the chance to improve their price and/or explain to you why the other guy's price is so low (and what they say is revealing: do they say the other guy's price is so low because he does crappy work or do they say the other guy has just given you a really excellent price?) But if you're not in the mood to take the chance that someone is going to explain to you in great detail why the other guy is terrible, stick with "I'm still waiting for the other quotes to come in" or "I'd rather not talk specifics". (I'm not saying some companies don't do crappy work, and it would be good to know that; you can generally tell by the other things the Quoter has said if he's giving you valid information or just trying to badmouth the other company(ies).)
Taking the Stress out of the High Pressure Sales Tactics
High pressure sales tactics are NOT MY FAVORITE. So far, none of my Quoters have been very pushy. It might help that I am asking questions which indicate I have some knowledge about this procedure, and I am also writing things down, and occasionally flipping back to something a previous Quoter has told me, as the current Quoter talks to me.
To further head off any pushy sales tactics, casually mention sometime during your conversation that you are currently getting quotes from a number of companies. A good time to do this might be at the beginning, when the Quoter asks you about your color preferences. They all have similar colors, and you can also find that information on the manufacturers website, so, unless your sole purpose of replacing your siding is to get the colors you've always dreamed of, when the Quoter asks what you're thinking about colors, say something like, "Oh, I'm still gathering information right now; I'll look at colors once I've decided which company I'm going with." This lets the Quoter know that a) color is not your first concern, b) you are not desperate to get this done TODAY so you have time to think about your decision, and c) you are looking at multiple companies. It also shortens the time you have to talk to him since you then do not need to have a lengthy discussion about colors. (Although, asking what he would recommend is another good question for finding out what kind of person he is and what kind of experience he has, as mentioned in the next topic below.)
Upon finding out that you are considering multiple companies, Quoter will likely fish for information about which other companies are giving you quotes; some are more subtle about this fishing than others. This set off my "this seems like a socially unacceptable/rude/TMI question" alarm bells the first time it happened, so it's good to know this is likely to be coming. Decide whether you'd like to say, "I'd rather not go into specifics" or "I'm getting quotes from these companies:_________; what can you tell me about them?" Again, this is a good opportunity to find out what kind of a person you are dealing with. Are you dealing with someone who tries to grow their business by badmouthing other companies? Does this person have the integrity to give you an honest assessment of the other companies, especially if it is a positive assessment?
I was very impressed with garage door Quoter #2 because when I told him who I got the other quote from he said, "Oh, they do really good work and sell a good product!" He was also honest with me about the excellent price the first Quoter gave me and that he couldn't meet that price. I will happily recommend him, along with Quoter #1, the next time someone asks about getting garage work done!
Asking Questions
Asking questions is a really good way to find out about the integrity, personality, and experience of the person you are talking to. It also tells the person that you have enough information to be able to ask the right questions and so are not completely at their mercy. It is good to ask some questions that you already know the answers to so that you can see how this person would treat someone who didn't know the answers.
I recommend having something like this ready, "We're also thinking about replacing (something that doesn't actually need to be replaced) because (we aren't sure how long it's been here or we aren't sure if it's in good shape); what would you recommend for that?" In my case, I ask them about the siding on the sunroom that was added to the house sometime in the past few years. So far, only one of the six Quoters has tried to convince me to replace that siding (which does not need to be replaced).
When the Quoter starts giving you his sales spiel, he will tell you LOTS of things. Chances are he will mention the answers to the questions I will list below, but, if not, these are some things that you will want to know:
*******Edited to add*******
How did I forget the BEST QUESTION EVER?! Depending on your personality, and to keep him on his toes, it might also be fun to ask your Quoter which Hogwarts house he is in =D!
*******
-Do you use subcontractors or do you have a siding crew on staff? (Many of the Quoters frown on subcontractors because their quality of work may not be as well-known as on staff crew.)
-How many houses do you side each year? (You want the company to have experience, but do you want a company that's fitting in as many jobs as possible?)
-Do you use fanfold/backerboard insulation or the insulation built-in to the siding? Why do you use that instead of the other? (The built-in insulation is more expensive; most of my quoters use fanfold or backerboard insulation behind the siding, although that kind doesn't add much to your energy efficiency. The fanfold/backerboard insulation was 1/4" with mention of a possible 1/2" and an R value of between 1-2.)
-What is the thickness of the siding? (.044" thickness has been the standard answer in my experience.)
-Which brand of siding do you use? Why do you prefer that brand? (The two brands I've been quoted are Crane and Mastic. There can be some strongly held personal opinions about which brand is better.)
-What is the charge if you find any rotting wood when you take down the old siding? (Some quoters itemize this charge-meaning, they listed the price that would be charged if that came up but that wasn't included in the quote, some have included it as part of the total job. This is a place where you could end up with additional charges, if this is not included in the total job.)
-How many vents are included? (Again, some quoters itemize this charge, some have included it as part of the total job.)
-Does the quote include the cost of any fittings (where lights, faucets, etc are on the siding)? (I did not know to ask this question until the last Quoter mentioned that this cost was included in his quote.)
-Which color(s) would you recommend for this house? (As he answered, it became apparent that one of my Quoters had a good eye for design, so I was glad I asked!) (Because I cannot visualize how something is going to look until it is done. Which is too late.)
-How far out are you scheduling this job right now? (4-6 weeks has been the standard response here.)
-How long will the job take? (I've been told anywhere from 1-2 weeks, weather dependent.)
-Do you offer a teacher/military/police officer/firefighter discount?
-What is your warranty for parts and labor and is it transferable (if you know you'll be selling your house)? (I've been told that, since we know we will be selling the house soon, I can get a transferable warranty, which is supposed to be a good selling point.)
-Is your company bonded and insured? (This has generally been mentioned in the coupon ad or on the website.)
Things to Write on Your Paper about Each Company
-Did Quoter arrive on time for the appointment or call to communicate any delays?
-How quickly did someone return your call if you had to leave a message somewhere?
-Did Quoter email the quote when he said he would?
-Did Quoter speak respectfully to you?
-Did Quoter try to sell you something unnecessary?
*******
Once all of the quotes have come in and I've decided on a company, I will blog about my experience with each company's Quoter, but for your information (in case you're in the middle of this right now and need some hope), keeping in mind that the garage guy said to expect between $9,000-$12,000, here are the quotes (which I will comment on in more detail in the next post) I've received so far: $9675, $9800, $10,575, $14,050, and $18,750.
Tuesday, March 15, 2016
I Do Not Approve
I was talking to David the other day about which classes he was interested in taking during high school. He mentioned taking AP Chemistry, and I immediately thought,
"Oh, perfect!
*pesky brain trying to tell me something* *swat pesky brain away*
I'll call Beloved Friend!
*pesky brain trying to interrupt my brilliant thought again*
And she can tell him all about......wait."
Grief bomb.
*******
When I first read this poem, many years ago, I thought it was beautifully written, and I admired the way the author was able to use words, like a musician playing her instrument. I know the same words, much like I know how to play many of the notes on the pages of piano music, but, just as I feel I am always playing only the notes on the page instead of the music, I cannot use my words like this talented writer did.
When I read this poem again recently, there were tears rolling down my cheeks before I finished the first stanza, and I was staggered by the way the author was able to choose the perfect words to describe this experience. I could not find the right words, but THIS! Somebody DID find the words!
When I finished reading (and crying), even though I believe that death is just a part of our journey and does not mark the end of our existence (a belief which, apparently, is not helping me miss those who are gone any less), I wanted to tattoo on my arms, cross-stitch and frame, write on the walls, or go to the top of a mountain or into a forest or the middle of a wide, open field and scream and scream and scream:
I know! BUT I DO NOT APPROVE! AND I! AM! NOT! RESIGNED!
"Oh, perfect!
*pesky brain trying to tell me something* *swat pesky brain away*
I'll call Beloved Friend!
*pesky brain trying to interrupt my brilliant thought again*
And she can tell him all about......wait."
Grief bomb.
*******
When I first read this poem, many years ago, I thought it was beautifully written, and I admired the way the author was able to use words, like a musician playing her instrument. I know the same words, much like I know how to play many of the notes on the pages of piano music, but, just as I feel I am always playing only the notes on the page instead of the music, I cannot use my words like this talented writer did.
When I read this poem again recently, there were tears rolling down my cheeks before I finished the first stanza, and I was staggered by the way the author was able to choose the perfect words to describe this experience. I could not find the right words, but THIS! Somebody DID find the words!
Dirge Without Music
I am not resigned to the shutting away of loving hearts in the hard ground.
So it is, and so it will be, for so it has been, time out of mind:
Into the darkness they go, the wise and the lovely. Crowned
With lilies and with laurel they go; but I am not resigned.
Lovers and thinkers, into the earth with you.
Be one with the dull, the indiscriminate dust.
A fragment of what you felt, of what you knew,
A formula, a phrase remains,----but the best is lost.
The answers quick and keen, the honest look, the laughter, the love,---
They are gone. They are gone to feed the roses. Elegant and curled
Is the blossom. Fragrant is the blossom. I know. But I do not approve.
More precious was the light in your eyes than all the roses in the world.
Down, down, down into the darkness of the grave
Gently they go, the beautiful, the tender, the kind;
Quietly they go, the intelligent, the witty, the brave.
I know. But I do not approve. And I am not resigned.
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
When I finished reading (and crying), even though I believe that death is just a part of our journey and does not mark the end of our existence (a belief which, apparently, is not helping me miss those who are gone any less), I wanted to tattoo on my arms, cross-stitch and frame, write on the walls, or go to the top of a mountain or into a forest or the middle of a wide, open field and scream and scream and scream:
I know! BUT I DO NOT APPROVE! AND I! AM! NOT! RESIGNED!
Thursday, January 7, 2016
Tell Me a Story (Updated)
I need your help, Internet. This is a rough week for me, so I'd really appreciate it if you would tell me a story (or two or three or however many you can think of). Tell me about times when you tried to do something kind and thoughtful for someone, and that made their day or turned out to be JUST the thing they didn't even realize they needed. Or you carefully planned the BEST! SURPRISE! EVER! for someone and it turned out PERFECTLY or even better than you'd dared hope. Or when someone did something kind and thoughtful for YOU, and that helped you hang on a little longer or was JUST the thing you needed. If you don't want to post publicly, feel free to email me at stilldoingmybest (at) gmail (dot) com.
Thanks, friends.
*******
I thought of some fun surprises that I've blogged about!
Click on the "Crappy Day Presents" tab above, scroll down, and there are lots of posts about Crappy Day Packages I've been lucky enough to receive!
A lovely surprise from the internet
The creation of a fun surprise (this was SO! FUN!)
Thanks, friends.
*******
I thought of some fun surprises that I've blogged about!
Click on the "Crappy Day Presents" tab above, scroll down, and there are lots of posts about Crappy Day Packages I've been lucky enough to receive!
A lovely surprise from the internet
The creation of a fun surprise (this was SO! FUN!)
Saturday, November 21, 2015
Let Me Take Your Order
Sometimes, it's pretty cool to be living in the future. Like when your friend is having a crappy day, and you wish you could bring her a plate of freshly baked goodies, but you can't because she lives too far away, but then you remember that you live in the future and you have CHOICES!
2-topping medium pizza, stuffed cheesy bread, wings, oven-baked sandwich, pasta, or marbled cookie brownie for $5.99 each when you order 2 or more! (I also HIGHLY recommend the parmesan bread bites (scroll down)!) This is a nice variety of sweet and savory treats!
Maybe this is a chocolate emergency; there are chocolate lava crunch cakes! Or Hot Chocolate Brownie (not sure how long this one will be available), Triple Chocolate Brownie, Ultimate Chocolate Chip Cookie, or Chocolate Dunkers!
If Domino's or Pizza Hut don't deliver to your friend, maybe Papa John's does! Cinnamon Knots, Chocolate Chip Cookie, or Double Chocolate Chip Brownie! Mmmmm, those Garlic Knots, Garlic Parmesan Breadsticks, and Cheesesticks look very yummy as well!
I always figure that if I'm ALREADY ordering something, I might as well make it worth the delivery charge, and, with the places linked to above, it's very easy to add a pizza to your order too! But how do you know what someone likes on their pizza? Is there a universally accepted pizza topping? WHAT IF I ORDERED THE WRONG TOPPING AND RUINED IT FOR HER?! We need to collect some data in the comments.
Hmm, I think the pizza restaurants have us covered pretty well with a variety of delicious options, but Jimmy John's (mostly sandwiches, chips, raisin oatmeal cookie, chocolate chunk cookie) also delivers in some places.
If you aren't sure what is available in your friend's area, you can try GrubHub ("Order Food Delivery Online from Local Restaurants") or Seamless. If you aren't a pizza and baked goods person, what elseis there would you like?
If someone wanted to send YOU yummy food to brighten your day, what could they send? Leave your answer in the comments, with a name so people know who you are, and feel free to email me to make sure I have your current address, in case anyone (that I know) should ask me =)! Bookmark this post so you can refer to it later if there's someone you want to send food to; if you're really lucky, she will have left a comment!
I'll go first, so nobody has to feel awkward about being the first to speak up. My VERY FAVORITE pizza is Pizza Hut's deep dish, Meat Lovers with black olives because that was the pizza I ate in the delivery room right after Jeffrey was born, and nothing has ever tasted so good in my entire life! For Domino's $5.99 special, I usually get ham and black olives. I also LOVE their parmesan bread bites, and their Cinna Stix with the frosting for dipping are the best I've tried, although I can't remember which other brand I tried that I didn't like as well, and it looks like Papa John's Cinnamon Knots might be good too. That Hot Chocolate Brownie (BROWNIE!! TOPPED WITH TOASTED MARSHMALLOWS!! AND DRIZZLED WITH CHOCOLATE SYRUP!!) looks like it might fix whatever ails youas long as you aren't allergic to sugar! I...really don't know what other food a person could order and send here because I don't order food for delivery very often. I know that some Chinese restaurants deliver, but I had a bad experience with fried rice some time ago that I still haven't gotten over, so that's out for me.
Your turn! What would you like, and are there any other delivery places I don't know about that we would find useful?
2-topping medium pizza, stuffed cheesy bread, wings, oven-baked sandwich, pasta, or marbled cookie brownie for $5.99 each when you order 2 or more! (I also HIGHLY recommend the parmesan bread bites (scroll down)!) This is a nice variety of sweet and savory treats!
Maybe this is a chocolate emergency; there are chocolate lava crunch cakes! Or Hot Chocolate Brownie (not sure how long this one will be available), Triple Chocolate Brownie, Ultimate Chocolate Chip Cookie, or Chocolate Dunkers!
If Domino's or Pizza Hut don't deliver to your friend, maybe Papa John's does! Cinnamon Knots, Chocolate Chip Cookie, or Double Chocolate Chip Brownie! Mmmmm, those Garlic Knots, Garlic Parmesan Breadsticks, and Cheesesticks look very yummy as well!
I always figure that if I'm ALREADY ordering something, I might as well make it worth the delivery charge, and, with the places linked to above, it's very easy to add a pizza to your order too! But how do you know what someone likes on their pizza? Is there a universally accepted pizza topping? WHAT IF I ORDERED THE WRONG TOPPING AND RUINED IT FOR HER?! We need to collect some data in the comments.
Hmm, I think the pizza restaurants have us covered pretty well with a variety of delicious options, but Jimmy John's (mostly sandwiches, chips, raisin oatmeal cookie, chocolate chunk cookie) also delivers in some places.
If you aren't sure what is available in your friend's area, you can try GrubHub ("Order Food Delivery Online from Local Restaurants") or Seamless. If you aren't a pizza and baked goods person, what else
If someone wanted to send YOU yummy food to brighten your day, what could they send? Leave your answer in the comments, with a name so people know who you are, and feel free to email me to make sure I have your current address, in case anyone (that I know) should ask me =)! Bookmark this post so you can refer to it later if there's someone you want to send food to; if you're really lucky, she will have left a comment!
I'll go first, so nobody has to feel awkward about being the first to speak up. My VERY FAVORITE pizza is Pizza Hut's deep dish, Meat Lovers with black olives because that was the pizza I ate in the delivery room right after Jeffrey was born, and nothing has ever tasted so good in my entire life! For Domino's $5.99 special, I usually get ham and black olives. I also LOVE their parmesan bread bites, and their Cinna Stix with the frosting for dipping are the best I've tried, although I can't remember which other brand I tried that I didn't like as well, and it looks like Papa John's Cinnamon Knots might be good too. That Hot Chocolate Brownie (BROWNIE!! TOPPED WITH TOASTED MARSHMALLOWS!! AND DRIZZLED WITH CHOCOLATE SYRUP!!) looks like it might fix whatever ails you
Your turn! What would you like, and are there any other delivery places I don't know about that we would find useful?
Saturday, February 14, 2015
I Sure Didn't See This Coming!
Today started out pretty blah for various reasons, but when I came upstairs after exercising this morning, I noticed that Ian had left me a paper on my desk, right on top of one of my crocheting patterns where he knew I'd see it. When I didn't say anything right away, he asked if I had noticed the Valentine he left me, so I stopped what I was doing and read the paper. I laughed and laughed because it is just SO IAN. When I finished reading, I asked if he had done this all by himself, and he said yes. He also said this was his 3rd draft! Considering that Husband didn't manage to give me the present I picked out for myself and gave him to give me today, and the fact that none of the other children did anything, I'm certain Husband had nothing to do with this.
Here is what he wrote, just as he wrote it:
IAN, you guys! IAN. I am FLABBERGASTED! If you had told me years ago that he would ever do something like this, especially it being his own idea, I would have thought you were CRAZY.
Wow.
Here is what he wrote, just as he wrote it:
Dear Mom,Java Script is red, Blackboard collaborate is blue**,
If I get bored in class, It's because of all that I learned from you,
Einstien was smart, Oppenhimer too,
But neither of them are as smart as you,
Louis Armstrong reached high, the Wright Bros. did too,
They must have had mothers like you,
Nephi was brave, the Stripling warriors too,
And they owe it all to mothers like you,
Plumbers are red, Hedgehogs are blue, If i'm intrested in
something, I can count on encouragement from you,
Shakespeare wrote well, Longfellow did to, I can punctuate this
poem so well because of all the help from you,
Robin Hood shot well, Little John did too, I'll bet that they had
mothers like you,
Cargo pants are awesome, Safari vests are too, and you told me
yourself that I got that from you, :)
I like to do origami, and I can draw pretty well too, But only
because of all the support from you!
Happy Valentine's day!
Love [Ian]
*Blackboard colaborate is blue+red.
IAN, you guys! IAN. I am FLABBERGASTED! If you had told me years ago that he would ever do something like this, especially it being his own idea, I would have thought you were CRAZY.
Wow.
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